CBPC Roadshow: Payments Edge Discussion: Skills for the Next-Generation of Payments Leaders – Julia Streets & Amy Burr [Episode #3]

Shaun Ferrari 00:00:40 Hello everybody, and thank you for joining the next episode of The P.I.T, Exchange, where we talk about the latest in payments innovation and technology. And today we’re going to add leadership to that list of things we talk about, even though it doesn’t fit into the pit aspect of the pit exchange. But we’re excited to talk about payments leadership today. I’m your host today, Sean Ferrari here with Currency Research. And we are absolutely thrilled to bring you this next episode of on the Road to CBPC.

Shaun Ferrari 00:01:10 and we’ve got another round of very interesting guests who are going to be joining us at the central Bank Payments Conference in Istanbul, coming up at the end of August, early first week of September. So I’m thrilled to welcome both Julia Streets and Amy Burr with us. Thank you and welcome Julia and Amy. So those of you that I think most of most folks are aware of who you are in the payment space. But we’ll start with some introductions and Julia is going to go up first. So Julia Streets is the founder in chief of Streets Consulting. And we’ll then go over to to Amy Burr, who has actually recently been promoted to the chief product and relationship officer at the Federal Reserve Financial Systems, services. Sorry, Federal Reserve Financial services. so, Julia, let me start with you. If you could give folks a quick little introduction, who you are and what what excites you about this whole payments leadership space?

Julia Streets 00:02:08 Well, first thing is, I’m, very proud to be the dean of the Payments Edge, which is the Prix de for the Istanbul conference this year.

Julia Streets 00:02:16 this is a new thing in the program. It’s a new, strategic addition by you and your colleague Sean, because, realizing the power of building a cohort of amazing next gen leaders really matters not only in the industry today, but also tomorrow. And this is born from, kind of 2 or 3 different elements of my life. So one is I’m an entrepreneur. I have one business that is focused on the growth and transformation of, businesses in fintech. So startups, scale ups, global organizations and industry associations. I’m the founder and chair of that business. The second is focused on the people, the humans in the mix, as I describe it. So I’m an executive coach. I do a lot of 1 to 1 executive coaching. I run boot camps and workshops. One of the reasons why I’m really honored to be the dean, I also give a lot of speeches, and I have an online course which has just been accredited by Tech Skills, which is basically the soft skills course for the tech industry.

Julia Streets 00:03:19 So I really my second business, I really, really think about the humans in the mix because we know that in the age of AI, actually those human skills, professional skills, soft skills, leadership skills are going to help individuals to outperform. So it’s a it’s an exciting blend of not everything I do, not only everything that I do in my life, but actually to be able to bring it to the conference.

Shaun Ferrari 00:03:41 Now, we’re thrilled to do that. And it’s definitely important to talk about that, that leadership journey. And as you say, the the humans and the mix for sure. and as we were working on putting that program together, we were thinking, gee, who could we have a discussion with while we’re in while we’re in Istanbul and now before Istanbul, that could really talk about the payments journey and what it’s how they’ve progressed through everything. And one of the names top on our list was Amy. So Amy, thank you for joining us. We’ve known each other a long time from my my time back at the Federal Reserve, many years ago.

Shaun Ferrari 00:04:14 and I’ve got to witness the amazing journey of Amy all the way up to to chief product and relationship officer, at the at the Federal Reserve Financial Services. So. Amy, thanks for joining us. lovely to have you. Great to. If you would say a few words about about yourself and your journey.

Amy Burr 00:04:33 Shaun, thank you so much. I’m delighted to be here. And I appreciate the opportunity to, to chat with you, Julia, and and to spend some time together in, in in Istanbul. My journey in payments, as you said. I shudder to think how many years it’s been. And each year it seems to pass more quickly and the pace of change becomes faster and faster than the than the year before. And as I think about my own leadership journey, I’m really grateful for the opportunities that I’ve been given. And I think about the challenges that lie ahead, having the opportunity to share some of what I’ve learned, but learn from some of the folks who are also beginning their journeys.

Amy Burr 00:05:14 That’s super exciting to me. And I’m, like I said, really looking forward to that opportunity.

Shaun Ferrari 00:05:21 Awesome. And we’re thrilled to have you there. I think as I, as I mentioned, I mean, it’s it’s just there’s so much to think about when you a lot, a lot of times as we all go through this journey, we get promoted and we got new responsibilities and we take on more and more leadership. and what I’ve noticed in the payment space is that this has all happened as we’re, as we become kind of technical experts or as we’re gaining more expertise in the actual subject matter, and then all of a sudden it’s, hey, by the way, you’ve got this massive team to lead. and what should we be doing strategically? And it’s like, oh my God. you know, I think over time, the training for that has has become better and more. More, more on point. But I still think it’s a bit of a challenge as we kind of progress from technological experts to strategic leaders.

Shaun Ferrari 00:06:11 And that’s what we’re really hoping that this Payments Edge program can help folks kind of navigate that journey. So I think maybe to to both of you and, you know, Julia, we can start with you and then and then move over to Amy, as you as you’re thinking of the payment space in particular, because that’s really the folks we’re, we’re geared at talking to here. what do you think are some of these biggest challenges right now for developing leaders in the space? what’s what’s that kind of key challenge? Go ahead. Julia.

Julia Streets 00:06:42 Well, you know, I was really thinking about about this before, and I know, and I mentioned I talked to lots of leaders of businesses, so real practitioners and as well as I love Amy’s comment about, you know, kind of the blend of talent that we have in the industry. So whether we’re thinking about not just at the top of the game, but also there are five generations now working in the industry. So I think that the there are a number of kind of strands that come together.

Julia Streets 00:07:06 And on any leader in their journey from manager to leader, you said it’s Sean. There’s that whole step up to being a strategic leader of others as well. I think one of the things I have to be able to do is balance this pace of change and discern which are the best inputs, because we just live in a life where all our time, where there are so, so many inputs. So just to figure out kind of, you know, what are the most valuable inputs and how to discern which are the best ones, and to be able to think clearly, to be able to process and to build in time, to be able to think clearly. I think, by gosh, you know, I spend so much time with leaders going, if only I had more time to think. And it almost becomes a non-negotiable. Now, the discipline to be able to drive performance and of course, the ability to take everybody with you. And one of the things that we know to be true right now is just the ability to be a great storyteller.

Julia Streets 00:08:01 So not only to just kind of shape your vision and your strategy, to be able to have the discipline to drive it forward, to deliver that performance, but actually take everybody with you getting behind a really clear narrative.

Shaun Ferrari 00:08:13 Awesome. That storytelling piece, I think, is is an interesting, interesting component. I know we used to we used to even talk about that when it was looking at a bunch of data. It was like, yeah, but what’s the story? And it’s true. Also on the on that leadership journey for sure. Amy, what about what about you? What do you what do you think are some of the current biggest challenges out there for leaders in the in the payment space currently?

Amy Burr 00:08:36 Well, first, I love Julio’s response and I agree with with everything that she said. And from where I sit, I think one of the challenges that we as people who are trying to cultivate and foster leadership, that’s one of the challenges that we’ve got is the way that we’ve always done.

Amy Burr 00:08:52 It isn’t the way that we need to do it or that we can do it going forward. So, Sean, you mentioned that you and I have known each other for a couple of decades, right? And it used to be the way your leadership journey would progress. The the passage of time was a huge component of that. And we don’t that’s that’s not a model that we can foster going forward. We need people who are, quick to develop, who have superior judgment and discretion, a willingness to take balanced, calculated risks and make decisions in an environment of uncertainty. To Julia’s point, what are the inputs that that really matter? Additionally, I think as central bankers, there’s a unique challenge to to leadership in the central bank environment because it’s a world of flashy, whiz bang, new new thing. Right? But what we’re measured on at the end of the day is how well we run the payment systems that are the backbones of our nation’s economies. We need to do all the unsexy things to make sure that our systems are secure, stable, resilient, reliable, available, and we need the ability to know when to dig in and focus on those super unsexy table stakes and when to pull out and look at the strategic new thing that’s emerging.

Amy Burr 00:10:13 That actually could be a game changer and distinguish the the, the showy whiz bang from the really core key stuff that’s at the heart of what we do with central bankers.

Shaun Ferrari 00:10:27 It’s a good point. I mean, there’s there is that extra element when you’re talking about central banks. that’s, that is that it has to work. It has to be the. Just the I don’t know how to say it other than as you did. It’s it’s the, the non sexy plumbing that makes these things run. And I think even over time though, there’s more and more, whiz bang stuff going on at central banks. then then maybe there used to be in the past, when you look at things like the tech that’s running fed now as an example and others with real time payments, it’s that’s just I don’t know, maybe it’s because we’re central bankers at heart, but that stuff’s kind of cool, you know, it’s.

Amy Burr 00:11:14 Oh, 100%. I don’t I do not mean to imply that this is not a time when innovation and future looking is at the heart of what we do.

Amy Burr 00:11:23 It absolutely is. It’s just that we can’t let this shiny new distract from. We need to be both and. And if we can’t be both and we run the risk of becoming irrelevant. And that’s that’s a real challenge and opportunity.

Julia Streets 00:11:37 And I think that’s really it’s a it’s a really important point to make, which is at the very core of everything when we talk about, you know, emotional intelligence or we talk about motivation is purpose. So when we think about the purpose is never forgetting why we’re here. What we’re here to achieve. What does success look like? And then also, how do we make sure we say sustainable, relevant, forward looking. Constantly horizon scanning and and thinking about how do we bring the very best innovation so we never lose that sense of purpose or indeed kind of fulfill the job that we need to do. And I think it’s a really important point, because I think for leaders right now that there is, I wouldn’t call it attention, but there are two things going on at the same time, which, you know, in some terms we talk about in banking terms.

Julia Streets 00:12:26 So kind of how do you run the bank and change the bank or how do you, you know, change your aeroplane mid-flight is another way I’ve heard this described and there are many, many others. And but it is that that very essence of how do you transform and also remain solid. And this is, this is really what’s on the shoulders of leaders right now.

Shaun Ferrari 00:12:46 Yeah, I think that’s that’s a great point. And maybe, you know, thinking a little bit, we were going to we were going to get to this if we had some extra time. But maybe we pull it in now because the discussion is kind of going in this direction. But like if you’re thinking of as leaders today, you have to both balance kind of those short term efforts, those projects that are, you know, you’re trying to deliver on right now with like what that long term strategic vision is. That’s a that’s a complex thing, especially in this world where things are changing so fast. Right. So I don’t know.

Shaun Ferrari 00:13:20 Amy, how do you think about that kind of balancing this kind of these projects have to get done. These are the goals. This is what we have to deliver as as the central bank. But here’s this kind of long term vision where some more of that sexy stuff can come in. How do you do both of those things?

Amy Burr 00:13:36 So, so that’s, that’s I mean, that’s that’s that’s the, the everyday challenge. and I think there are maybe one, one thought and then additional dimension I’d like to add in the, the thought is, the one thing I can say with absolute certainty. Is I don’t know what the payments landscape is going to look like in five years or ten years, other than it’s not going to look exactly like today. And so making sure that that as we seek to balance the the near term decisions and the longer term decisions, doing our best to to protect optionality and to make intentional choices where we say we’ll doing X today, open up or narrow the options available to me tomorrow, in the next year and the next year.

Amy Burr 00:14:23 I think that’s that’s super important. The other thing, though, that I think is really important as well, is that we also think about our customers in all of this and not what is the technology doing, although although that’s important, or what is my business strategy doing, although that’s important, but what are my customers emerging needs? What is the emerging market landscape and how should that then inform my technology choices and inform my business strategies. So I think in the in Federal Reserve Financial Services. We’ve been working really hard to put our customers at the center of what we do and sort of, ground on on that, that those future customer needs is the is the anchor around which we make our subsequent decisions.

Julia Streets 00:15:11 And of course, there’s so much power in, almost kind of working together to figure out what the future is going to look like with your customer, without question. But then even within that conversation is, is what do we know? What do we know? We don’t know? What are the knowns of the unknown knowns and the knows unknown knowns.

Julia Streets 00:15:28 And, you know, every, management consultant will love these expressions, but they’re one of the most powerful ways to do that is to do that in collaboration with your customer and to go, okay, so what do we not know? And and how do you think we can find this out together? And what are the strands, if you like, that flows through everything? Is this, mindset of curiosity and, and the ability to, open your mind to be able to say, okay, so I know what we’re here for today and that absolutely is solid. We talked about that motivation and purpose and everything. I’m crystal clear on that. And I’m also I’m very clear about what I need to find out for the future and the smartest way to do that. And we’ve already touched on the power of our internal people and the power of the relationship with the customer as well. But I think there’s another element to this as well, just to kind of extend kind of the conversation a little bit further, which is how do we figure out what to say no to? Because I think one of the things which also kind of comes back and I was making notes on, on Amy’s remarks earlier, is we could go off chasing the shiny thing.

Julia Streets 00:16:31 And actually, half of this is, oh, not half of it, but a big old part of this is how to stay focused. I talked about the disciplined delivery and performance. but also to be crystal clear about rather than just adding more and adding more and adding more is what are we going to begin to say no to? What are we going to not do in order to be able to do what we’re here to do and what we what we intend to do tomorrow. And that’s a big that’s a big decision on the shoulders of any leader.

Shaun Ferrari 00:16:59 Yeah. That’s true that that triage almost of like, yeah. What are these. What are these nice to haves versus must do projects versus. Yeah. This moves us on the along the strategy line. But we can’t do all of it. So what are those things they know to I think that’s definitely something to to focus on as we we bring this discussion around to what we’re going to be chatting about in, in Istanbul too, is like, how how do you set those priorities and what to say no to, I don’t want to give away the whole discussion.

Shaun Ferrari 00:17:29 but maybe, Amy, if I could ask you, one of the most important lessons you could pass on to other up and coming leaders. Like, what have you learned that you think that next generation of leaders could take away, or what have you learned? Again, don’t give everything away. Just just one thing. We’ll talk about more in Istanbul when we’re there.

Amy Burr 00:17:51 Well, Shawn, maybe I’ll answer that question. In a way that’s a little bit of a teaser for Istanbul. Perfect. Which which is just the value and power of a community and a and a network. So to tell us a story, at the first central Bank payments conference back in Singapore, however many years ago, I had the opportunity to attend, I was a last minute substitute and I barely knew a soul. But there was that first networking reception and I made myself go. And I did the thing you do. I’m going to make myself talk to five new people, and then I and then I’ll, you know, call it good.

Amy Burr 00:18:27 and anyway, I ended up trying to be curious, as you said, Julia, asking questions. I struck up a conversation with a, a gentleman asked some questions that, if I’m honest, would probably be a little cringey today. But he was very gracious, and, I learned a thing or two or 3 or 4. And as it turns out, over the years, our paths continue to cross, right? Because it’s a small world that we that we operate in, and it’s a world where we’re all facing really similar challenges and opportunities. And there’s so much learning that we can gain from, from listening to one another. And so anyway, fast forward ten years since that cocktail party meeting, and that person has become the go to guy that I will ping. If I’ve got a question about what’s happening in EMEA or the latest in, in, in interlinking and I want the real deal like the, the white papers and stuff all interesting. But if I want to know what’s really going on, I’ve got someone that I can reach out to.

Amy Burr 00:19:26 Who am I trust to kind of tell me what I need to know? And that is invaluable. And so the lesson that I’ve learned that I, that I’d offer in this conversation is to to force yourself, even when it’s uncomfortable, to start the conversations, strike up the relationships because you have no idea what benefit they will offer over time. but you can absolutely be certain that the contacts will continue to to offer value as as our careers progress.

Shaun Ferrari 00:20:00 I mean, it’s like we planned it because that is exactly the the message I would hope people take away from the events that we go to. So thank you for that testimonial. But that power of of networking and as you say, ten years down the road, you’re still in contact with with people you’re meeting and and talking to about the issues that matter. Julia, what about what about over to you? I mean, what do you think of that? What do you think about the maybe networking in a slightly different way, but in the power of like a cohort in doing this? Because that’s one of the things we’re, we’re trying to develop as part of the, the payments edge is it’s, you know, you’re not in this leadership journey alone.

Shaun Ferrari 00:20:34 there’s there’s a group of you. yeah.

Julia Streets 00:20:37 That’s occurred to me, I guess. I wish I’d had that, you know, if I go through my career. So. So if I go through my own, I. I served on the executive committee of the technology business of the New York Stock Exchange. I work for an international brokerage firm. I set up my own business, and I was quite late to understanding the power of networks, actually, and the power of coming through a network as a cohort. And if you look at accelerators for early stage startups, they will take you through as a cohort, through an accelerator. And we know that this has incredible power and potency and but also creating that camaraderie. And if you want to call it a safe space to be able to ask those questions which, you know, guarantee pretty much everybody’s sort of thinking, but you wouldn’t necessarily want to play those out in a, in a commercial live scenario because it may not be appropriate or in fact, that, you know, actually you’ve got other things you need to focus on.

Julia Streets 00:21:28 So you have to have the freedom to do that. Having the cohort to do it with, but also just to be able to have those relationships that Amy was describing. When you’ve got somebody you can literally pick up the phone to and just say, can I just ask you something? I’m just going to get a bit of clarity on this, but also that they they feel they can come to you because the more mutual that relationship is. I mean, it’s incredibly powerful. The, the other thing that I would say is, is then also the power of being able to, to, to play that forward, to pass that on to other people as you are coming through your leadership journey is to acknowledge it, to recognize it and to pass it on. there are a couple of other things, actually. I love this whole conversation about, oh, what I sort of wish I had learned throughout my career. And I think, again, it’s things I kind of came to you quite late, and I think it is master, the superpower of building in time to think and time to reflect, because that is what will absolutely power you forward.

Julia Streets 00:22:25 We tend to lurch. We are all lurches and doers. We have thump at our keyboards all day long, and we’re thumbing out of our phones probably all night long as well. But actually, to build in time during your working week as a disciplined, moment in time to be able to reflect on what went well, what would you do differently next time? What have you learned? What made you think, you can overlay that with, micro moments straight after a meeting or before you go into a meeting is actually to take the time to think before you go in to reflect when you come out. And there’s a be able to do that as a discipline. And people often think it still amazes me, though in the work I do, people often go, well, it’s I just don’t think it’s really work. Is it? If I’m if I’m not my PC thumping away, it absolutely 100% is. If you can master that superpower, it will power you forward with one other, which I also was taught, which is become really great at asking great questions.

Julia Streets 00:23:26 Whether we’re doing that on a podcast, whether you’re doing it on the platform, whether you’re dealing with your teams, whether you’re doing your clients, whether you do it with the regulators is ask really great questions. And of course, the answer, great question is to know when to ask an open question and also to understand the whole purpose of the meeting. So you can ask the sharpest question that’s going to get you what you need to be able to move forward. And quite often we kind of go, why? So I’ll just go in. I’ll just wing it. And I said, oh, I’ve been doing this long enough. I’ll just wing it. And actually, that plan asked great questions to reflect. Can really power you forward. And that will give you the clarity of thinking too.

Shaun Ferrari 00:24:00 I think those are great points. And, you know, along with asking the questions. Right. Especially those open questions. The power of listening, right. Actually, don’t forget to listen to the answer.

Shaun Ferrari 00:24:09 Don’t don’t think you have all the answers. Right. What is that team saying right there? You know, what are those answers? And then I’ll add my own $0.02 on the on the taking time to to think and reflect. And you know, my spin on that is to, you know, protect your calendar and protect your time kind of religiously to make sure you you do allow yourself time to do that sort of stuff. it was actually one of my high school teachers. One of the things I remember most in, in high school was them saying, hey, think about this essay topic over the next two, two weeks, you’re on vacation, right? Or whatever. Don’t don’t actually actively write about it. Don’t actively even think about it, but know that that question is out there and just have it going around in the back of your head. And then when you actually do sit down and think about it, it’s amazing how much work your brain has already done, right? You don’t you don’t even.

Shaun Ferrari 00:25:00 And I find that’s true in a lot of the leadership things as well. You kind of have to keep in touch with what those topics are, what you’re trying to think about, what’s strategically important. And your brain does a lot of that in the background. and then you can kind of pull it out. So it’s it’s interesting. well, I know we’re running short on time. I guess I’d ask each of you, you know, Istanbul is coming up at the end of at the end of August. We’re a little over a month, about a month and a half or so away from now when we’re recording this. so I’d ask each of you kind of, what are you looking forward to the most about about the, the event, whether that’s having to do with the payments edge piece or something else. what’s what are you looking forward to? I’ll start with the. Julia. You’re you’re on the mic right now. What are you looking forward to the most?

Julia Streets 00:25:49 Well, well, we’ve talked about so much today.

Julia Streets 00:25:52 In many ways what one is. Is, is the pre day. But I’m also really looking forward to the conference itself. I think we’ve touched on already the power of bringing together spending time with people. and also to just, just be and I say that because it sounds a bit kind of warm and fluffy, but there is something about stopping. There is something about being very present. There is something about, as you said, the listening to the wisdom of others, but also letting those those questions permeate around. having that time to connect with people, to test thinking and also kind of go much. You know, I’ve been sort of a couple of things I observed from yesterday, you know, what are your thoughts on those? And to be able to work with this incredible cohort of next gen. I mean, I think that is so exciting also. I’ve never been to Istanbul. I travel all the time. I’ve never been to Istanbul, so I’m very excited about that.

Shaun Ferrari 00:26:46 Awesome. Terrific.

Shaun Ferrari 00:26:47 Well, we’re we’re thrilled to have you with us. And glad we could make getting to Istanbul part of, the reality there. how about you, Amy? What are you looking forward to?

Amy Burr 00:26:57 Oh, so much at the agenda is really coming together to be just top notch. And that that is really exciting to me because as I said, as central bankers, we’re we’re all kind of grappling with a lot of the same questions whether, when and how we expand our ours, how we think about the future of security. And in a post-quantum age, what the implications of open banking are for the way that we do business. ET cetera, etc. kind of. We know what standards, all the stuff. We know what the topics are. And everybody is thinking about similar questions a little bit differently. Maybe it’s because some markets sort of have a different incumbent infrastructure and systems and they can they can leapfrog and others have like like the US have big entrenched banking systems with thousands and thousands of institutions, and we have a different set of considerations, maybe than than an emerging market.

Amy Burr 00:27:53 But the way that that we as central bankers are thinking about these same questions is, is so informative. And even if my market is different than your market, than his market, than her market, I can certainly learn something from the way that you’re thinking about the questions and the way that you’re leaning into challenges or maybe holding back. It’s just there’s something it’s it’s really special to be part of the global central banking community to to Julia’s point earlier, we are all completely aligned in the mission that we have to serve the the citizens of our of our countries. And that’s that’s sort of like a really powerful, unifying thing. And so having that as, as just the the backdrop to these conversations about provocative, challenging issues, it’s just it’s it’s a, unusual and really special opportunity. Sean and I am. I am counting counting down the days.

Shaun Ferrari 00:28:55 Great. Well, so are we. We continue to count down the days, and, we are we are happy to be able to to do this at the, at the end of August, early September.

Shaun Ferrari 00:29:03 So for those listening that that aren’t coming yet, we hope you will come. For those of you that are coming, we look forward to seeing you there. and with that, I think we are kind of out of time. So I’m going to thank both Julia and Amy, for taking some time to be with us today. Thank you both.

Amy Burr 00:29:22 Thank you.

Julia Streets 00:29:24 It’s been a pleasure.

Shaun Ferrari 00:29:26 Great. Well, we look forward to seeing both of you. and thanks to everyone for listening. I will add an extra promotion for the the Payments Edge leadership program that we are doing in in Istanbul. with Julia being the dean of that. So, particularly if you’re coming and you haven’t signed up yet for the Payments Edge program. Feel free to reach out to us. We’re happy to help assist do that, but we look forward to seeing everybody there. So thanks for taking the time and listening. We hope you listen to a future episode of The Pitt Exchange and see what fascinating linear leaders and technological experts we have on with us the next time.

Shaun Ferrari 00:30:03 So please like, subscribe, download, do whatever it is, wherever it is with the podcast that you get and receive. we are thrilled to have you spend some time with us and look forward to chatting with you again soon. Take care.