Inside the ECCU: Balancing Cash Logistics and Digital Payment Growth Across Eight Islands – Rosbert Humphrey [Season 3 | Episode #10]

Intro & Outro 00:00:00 Hello. Welcome to P.I.T. Exchange, a podcast by Currency Research. Join us as we discuss the latest in payments innovation and technology with the industry’s most innovative thought leaders. Today’s payments are changing and moving around the world faster than ever before, and Pit Exchange gives you the knowledge and insights to keep up. Sit back and relax as we join currency research, exchanging ideas with today’s special guest.

Jordan Taylor 00:00:00 Welcome to the special edition of the P.I.T. Exchange podcast by Currency Research. We are here live at the Banknote Conference in Washington, DC, and I’m delighted to welcome Rosbert Humphrey, director of the Currency Management department at the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank. Prosper, thank you for joining me. Yeah.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:00:17 Thank you also. It’s a pleasure to be here sharing my own experiences and what I’m about to do here.

Jordan Taylor 00:00:22 Wonderful, wonderful. How has your week been?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:00:25 It has been fantastic. I mean, a new environment. I mean, getting used to it, getting adjusted to it. I mean, these sessions have been very, very good. Informative. I’m loving it.

Jordan Taylor 00:00:33 Yeah. Good to see some some new colleagues, some old colleagues.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:00:37 Yeah, especially the old colleagues. It was good catching up. And I met some new ones who I intend to keep in contact with so that we can share experiences and exchange thoughts and ideas.

Jordan Taylor 00:00:45 That’s wonderful. That’s wonderful. But obviously, what I wanted to talk to you about was the work that you do down in the Eastern Caribbean.

Jordan Taylor 00:00:52 Eight islands, I believe, are within the currency union. Can you talk about your own role at the SEC CB. And then we can get into some some specifics.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:01:02 Well, yeah. So I am the director of the currency management department at the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank. So the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank, we serve eight countries Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, Saint Lucia, Montserrat, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, and Saint Lucia. So my role actually is to basically like forecast currency, provide currency to the different countries ordering of currencies. I am also an expert witness. That is I mean, providing security features, to the public. I mean, training them in counterfeiting, how to recognize counterfeiting. So it’s a massive role. It’s a really, really big role. I mean, do a lot of analytics and and that kind of thing.

Jordan Taylor 00:01:45 How much work do you do between the islands? I mean, I know that you are based at the ECB’s headquarters.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:01:52 In Saint Kitts and Nevis.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:01:53 Yeah.

Jordan Taylor 00:01:53 How much traveling do you do between the branches in Grenada or Dominica?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:01:58 Well, not much travel. it doesn’t really require much travel because we have an agency office in each of the countries. So there is close communication and contact and interaction with them. So they are basically the currency personnel on the ground, not just currency. But then that is one of their roles on the ground. So we have close contacts. So there’s really no need. But there are times when it may require us to actually go down to the islands, which is not really frequent.

Jordan Taylor 00:02:22 So cash in the in the currency union still the predominant means of payment.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:02:29 Yes. cash is still king. I don’t think cash is actually going away. Although we have we are seeing an increase in digital payments. I mean, cards, whether it be debit card, credit card, but, cash is still the dominant means of payment.

Jordan Taylor 00:02:44 You know, obviously with the ECB, you can’t go without talking about cash. And I don’t know if you had any roll in with that at all.

Jordan Taylor 00:02:55 I’ve spent a little bit of time in the See. See you in Grenada and Anguilla. And I would say that I didn’t see anybody or I didn’t encounter anyone who was familiar with it, let alone had transacted with it or accepted it as as a means of payment. So is that does that reflect Cash’s predominance? Does that reflect something larger? Is it? Is it a multitude of factors for why an initiative like that didn’t quite take off the first time?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:03:26 Well, to an extent, yes. in that time it was basically a pilot program. So the pilot has ended. so right now we are actually, reviewing the whole process. take the lessons learned and see if we can actually develop something new or something different. But we are now talking about version 2.0. it might be that it might be some other forms of fast payment. So we have some options available and we will be making the necessary announcement in due course.

Jordan Taylor 00:04:01 With cash being so entrenched in the currency union and in many jurisdictions, as we’ve talked about offline here, what are the challenges particularly? Not only are you an island country, but you are an island union.

Jordan Taylor 00:04:19 Yeah. The provision of cash services, I would imagine, has its own unique challenges that say the United States or, you know, even the European Union, for instance, don’t quite experience.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:04:30 Yeah. So the ECB is located in Saint Kitts, and then the stock of currency is actually located at the vault, the main vault in Saint Kitts. So one of the challenges is to the logistics in terms of getting cash around to the countries. so we have to use either sea transport or air transport. And that in itself can put some financial challenges. not only that, but we have I mean, we through the commercial banks have to make cash available to all. Not all countries have ATMs or have branches in rural areas. So persons in some of the countries, if not most, have to actually come to town to to access cash. And that in itself can actually pose some challenge. I think we need to do a lot of public education in terms of, you know, what the features of bank loans, I mean, what bank loans look like, and so on.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:05:21 And even if we are going to a digital form, the public education is really, really necessary so that the people can actually know the difference between digital currency and physical currency, and not to mix them up or to misinterpret what digital currencies. So yes, we have our challenges, but those are just a few. But yes, we do have our challenges. We are quite aware of them. And then we are actually making strides to basically deal with them and continent.

Jordan Taylor 00:05:44 Yeah. So we’ve talked or we’ve heard a lot this week about resilience. And I think that’s something that’s going to come up with our panel tomorrow. Talk to me about what the Esrb is doing in terms of resilience, what you think generally, maybe the central banks role needs to be in terms of resilience, and then is resilience enough with respect to keeping cash around? We heard yesterday I don’t know if you heard Professor Zagorski, but one of the things that he said was if you treat it just as a backstop and not for some form of usage, then it’s not going to be there as a backstop.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:06:23 Yeah. One of the major things is that we have to actually make cash available. So though cash might be available in the commercial bank. How does the commercial bank make it available to the general public? We have quite a bit of unbanked persons in the Eastern Caribbean. How do you make cash available to them? so that is that is probably one of the one of the challenges. But persons still need to know that cash are available so that that is one of the aspects that we definitely have to deal with. Okay. the the situation with, well, the features of the banknote. We have to then know, counter, you know, what persons might be doing in terms of scams and frauds. We don’t really have a big problem in that regard, but we are trying to keep above, you know, what the counterfeiter is actually thinking. Since we move to polymer. we have not had any reports of noise. We just had one counterfeit. that was 100 and it was really a poor one.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:07:27 So it was.

Jordan Taylor 00:07:28 A single.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:07:28 One, single one since 2019 when we issued, polymer. And that has been good. So it just goes to show how resilient we are in terms of our thinking and the physical cash itself.

Jordan Taylor 00:07:39 Yeah. So what then, would you say, if counterfeiting is not the current biggest challenge, what what is the central bank’s biggest challenge when it comes to cash right now?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:07:50 Well, that would be logistics, right? Getting cash available to the people. Right. And although the central bank is playing its part in that, how does the commercial bank get cash available to the public? No, we do not have ATMs all over the countries. Right. So persons like I indicated before might have to come to the city, into the urban areas to actually do that. How do we counter that? How do we make it available? Right. And that is probably, in my view, the biggest challenge that we have to face.

Jordan Taylor 00:08:20 So we we hear a lot from proponents of digital payments.

Jordan Taylor 00:08:24 And there’s obviously a place for, for both. I think most people who think about these things recognize that it’s not one or the other. There is a there is a place for cash and there’s a place for for digital payments. And it varies by jurisdiction. But there is a place for each with respect to getting cash to rural communities. Is is that a place where a proponent of digital payments might say, this is where we this is a gap that we filled. But they have obviously their own challenges in servicing those, those sorts of populations.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:08:57 Yeah. the digital currency that that would definitely be a challenge because, I mean, you are thinking about having connectivity in terms of internet or Wi-Fi or whatever, and it may not be available in all parts of, you know, the different islands. So that in itself can be a challenge, even the onboarding process. How do you register a person to get digital currency? How does a person become an owner of digital currency? That in itself is a challenge.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:09:21 So we have its challenges and it’s something that we have to actually deal with. And I think that’s what we are doing right now in terms of lessons learned. So we can counter them to bring up, you know, the new product, whether it be the 2.2 or some fast method of payment.

Jordan Taylor 00:09:35 So when you refer to digital currency in this context, you’re not necessarily talking about a CBDC, but maybe a mobile payment or commercial payment.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:09:42 Right? Right. Right, right. So digital currency in its broadest sense. So it can be either or. Yeah.

Jordan Taylor 00:09:47 Yeah. So I think those, those sorts of infrastructure problems, whether they are providing cash to rural communities or whether they are connectivity. Larger infrastructure issues are themes that persist for many jurisdictions. And that’s something that we’ve talked about with respect to the island nations event that we’re having later this year in in Fiji. How would you approach a forum like that with other, you know, whether it’s Sri Lanka who will have on the panel tomorrow or it’s Fiji or it’s the Solomon Islands or Vanuatu? What sort of shared learnings do you think those sorts of jurisdictions and central banks can offer one another with respect to how you face these particular challenges?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:10:35 Well, I see it.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:10:36 I see it as a learning experience. each of us, we may not know all the answers. So what if we can come with bits and pieces? At least we can learn something from each other. But, I think, you know, public education is key. Right. And if we don’t do that, I mean the users of the digital currency who are the public. I mean, if we don’t reach out to them and let them know what this product is all about. I mean it will definitely feel so we have to do that, not just to put it in their face and say, this is what we are coming with. I mean, you have to tell them, you know, all the, I mean, intricacies of, of the, of the product before they can think. So I think that is the single most key right, in all of that. But then I’m looking forward to actually learn from them. You know, like what they might have and then actually like give them our experience so that we can learn from each other in that regard.

Jordan Taylor 00:11:29 Is that education is that is the responsibility to educate? Is that a central bank burden?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:11:34 Well, yeah. If it’s a central bank product, I mean, you have to actually tell the public what the product is all about. So yes, I mean, I think yes it is.

Jordan Taylor 00:11:42 Yeah. Is is there a line between education and advocacy. Does one does one? Is there a is there an overlap or is there a. Well.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:11:50 They are interrelated, right? At the same time, you don’t really want to force it down the throats of the people. Right. You have to use moral suasion. Let them know the good, about it. Of course, with every product. I mean, there would be its upside or its downside, but then you let them know how beneficial this is and what you are actually hoping to achieve. there are some people who still want to hold on to cash, and that would always be so. Despite the the increase in, use of digital payments or electronic payment cash still remaining cash still is the dominant means of payment and people are still holding onto cash.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:12:26 People want to have cash. I mean, to them it’s power. Right. So it would be difficult to actually erode that, but to have that alternative means of payment would be, would be a plus. Yeah, sure.

Jordan Taylor 00:12:38 We’ve heard a lot this week, two, about the connection between a banknote and, you know, national pride and identity. And, you know, talking yesterday about Isabel from the Banco de México showed us the banknote. and and your own banknote. Is that something that, that is a is a salient sort of. Do people actually identify with that when they see the, the money and they hold it in their hands and they say this is, this is the Eastern Caribbean note and I am, I am of this place.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:13:14 Yeah. yeah. our folks in the Eastern Caribbean, I mean, we take pride in our banknotes. As a matter of fact, I mean, once a bank note is not clean, and, you know, I mean, persons take offense to that, right? So they want to have clean and good money.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:13:28 And that’s one of the things that the central bank at the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank has been actually advocating for, and our currency department is very good at that. I mean, we have a I mean, a nice clean note policy. we have a bank note policy which we roll out to the commercial Bank. So they take pride in all of that. One of the things, we’ll be doing, sometime later, starting later next year, would be putting out the, well, one of our denominations with the removal of the British monarch on the banknote. So right now, our banknotes have the queen. Right. With the passing of the Queen. We have to actually make some changes. And then we would be using folks from our countries, you know, who would have made significant contributions to the individual countries on the banknote. And I think that is one of the things that posters would have more pride, you know, and more ownership, you know, in the banknotes of the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank.

Jordan Taylor 00:14:24 What is the process of deciding who gets on those banknotes?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:14:28 Well, we went to the public. we did online service to persons actually made the contribution we have. and then persons within the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank, and then we have levels of authority in the central bank. I mean, our board of directors and our monetary council, which are the eight prime ministers, so the decision would have been all encompassing.

Jordan Taylor 00:14:49 Are there any variations between the countries in the currency union between cash use digital payment instruments? Is it. Is it pretty standard across.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:15:00 Yeah, it is standard. They might have some slight variation where, you know, 1 or 2 might be used in digital currency or electronic payments more than the other, but it is pretty standard. Yeah. it’s almost the same. I mean, some of them just prefer cash than anything else. So yeah, to me it’s pretty standard with just cash dominance.

Jordan Taylor 00:15:19 I wanted to ask you, you had mentioned a moment ago when someone holds a crumpled banknote, they take offence to that.

Jordan Taylor 00:15:26 During Covid, obviously digital instruments really gained ground on cash worldwide. And one of the things that that, you know, rightly or unfairly contributed to that was the notion that that banknotes were unclean or that they contributed to the spread of the virus was, was that something in the ECB that that you also witnessed? well excuse me.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:15:51 Persons would have done their own research and persons would have come up with, you know, a lot of theoretical, stuff in terms of what Covid can do and what it can do. We had to actually demystify quite a lot of those things. I mean, the norms are quite a lot of those things. And based on what the industry players were actually telling us that, no, I mean, it’s not enough to actually be sustained in paper banknotes around the time we had, paper and polymer circulating. So we were actually putting out paper and polymer at the same time where we where paper was finished, we were putting our polymer. Right. So we didn’t really have too much of a problem in that regard.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:16:27 Passos was still taking protective, you know, using protective protective gloves, masks and so on. Right. So it wasn’t too much of a concern. Initially, yes. Concerns were, you know, kind of concerned. I mean, you were seeing things in the media, Right? Right. But we had to actually denounce these things and let them know that. I mean, it’s safe. Pretty safe. Sure.

Jordan Taylor 00:16:47 Sure. Does remind me, does the eastern Caribbean, central bank, currency union? Do they have a is there a fast payment system that has been implemented? I know it’s taking off in many jurisdictions in the Caribbean, but is there one that is live?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:17:04 Not right. No. we have we just established a unit that would be dealing with that. Okay. Right. former director of currency Charmaine Powell. She’s heading that she was at BIS sometime ago for two years. So she is quite knowledgeable in that. So she is heading that unit and will be coming out with something soon.

Jordan Taylor 00:17:23 That’s interesting. Yeah, I think we we remember Charmaine from, one of our events, I think, in Mexico City. She she joined us. That was a that was great. But I think that was kind of the peak of the dash at the time. With respect to where you see cash going and the currency union evolving. Put on your. Your look into your crystal ball if you would. Where do you see things ten years from now. Because currency and circulation is is increasing. obviously cash, as you said, remains king for you. Do you see that persisting a decade from now? Do you, do you see it being, you know, maybe retreating a little bit, but still being very prevalent?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:18:08 Cash will continue to raise. Cash will continue to increase in terms of volume and value. at the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank on an annual basis. Currency circulation increased by about 5 to 7 8% per year. although we are seeing increases in electronic payments or different means of payment. Cash won’t go away and it’s not going away.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:18:31 People still want to hold on to cash. so they would coexist. They would circulate. but cash is not going away, In my view, I mean, well, not in my time. I don’t see it happening in my time. But even if when I’m gone from central Bank, I mean, I still see cash being the dominant, dominant means of, of, payment.

Jordan Taylor 00:18:53 So you mentioned just a moment ago, and I think, lunch is getting ready to be rolled out here. So we should be cognizant of, of, getting out here before the masses descend upon us. But you mentioned that you’ve only got a few years before, you know, you hang up your your central banker shoes and hat. What’s that? What’s that transition or that hand off, like, I mean, do how much, how much do you take a leadership role in advancing policy? And can you expect that whatever priorities you’ve focused on in your department as department head will continue? or are those things that come on, come down from the bank’s leadership?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:19:39 Well, certain things will come down from the bank leadership.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:19:41 But then because currency, nobody, no currency more than the persons who are actually working in currency. So my responsibility from now going on was to expose staff to a lot of, thoughts and ideas and to a lot of my own experience and knowledge. Right. So that is my quest going forward right now. if they can come to some of these conferences and meet industry players and meet persons, I mean, currency providers and then have that kind of communication and build network and have that kind of, interaction, that would be good too. So my, my responsibility would be to step aside a little by little by little until I’m totally out. And have these people been exposed to, to that kind of thing and pass on as much knowledge as possible, you know, to them.

Jordan Taylor 00:20:28 I think that’s really important. And I think that one of the things that we talk a lot about, particularly when we are at events like this, is, you know, where where does the next generation come from? You know, we have someone like yourself who has has been in this game for a long time, is getting ready to retire soon.

Jordan Taylor 00:20:46 Many others just like you at central banks all around the world. And so there needs to be really concerted efforts from institutions, and I think individuals in leadership positions to sort of nurture the next generation of people who will be taking over jobs like your own. because we need, you know, these issues might evolve, but they’re not going to disappear. Right. We’re going to we’re going to be talking about currency in some form or another forever. Yeah, I’m guessing so. Is there is there. Is there a succession in plan for for the currency department? Is do you have a do you have a deputy that without naming names of course.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:21:29 Great great great. So we are developing a plan currently. so the the whole succession planning is in the process of development, and that would be concrete as well, very, very soon. I’m advocating for that to happen as soon as possible, so that at least my job can start to ease up right now.

Jordan Taylor 00:21:47 Handing over some duties.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:21:48 Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:21:49 So at least it can happen right now. Do we have some young persons in the department? We have some mature people too. we have like about two young persons who are very enthusiastic about it. And I could see them using currency as a pathway as their career. But the other mature ones, I mean, they are ready to actually take over the reins. And I mean, I’m ready to actually pass it on. I’m just waiting for directives so that I can just like, you know, pass it on. It shouldn’t be difficult, though, but it’s just a matter of like handing it over bit by bit, piece by piece, until, you know, I’m totally relieved.

Jordan Taylor 00:22:21 Perfect. Well, I’m excited for you. For when that day arrives.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:22:23 Yeah, I’m excited for my. I’m excited for myself.

Jordan Taylor 00:22:26 Do you have a retirement plan?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:22:28 Of course. Yeah, man. I mean, yeah, I mean, I’ll be doing some vegetable agriculture, right? I mean, going halfway around the world, you know.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:22:36 But I won’t be doing that forever. But at least I have a plan as to what I’m going to do just to keep me occupied. Nothing for income. Yeah, right. But at least to keep me occupied. To keep me physically fit. Some, vegetable agriculture. And I’m good. Yeah.

Jordan Taylor 00:22:49 All right. Before I let you out of here, do you have any plans before you leave town outside the conference?

Rosbert Humphrey 00:22:54 no. No. conference ends on Thursday. I might find a place to do some shopping. Thursday afternoon. Friday morning? Early, about three or so. I’ll be leaving here 3:00 in the morning. 6:00 flight from here to Miami of Saint Kitts. About 2:00. I should be back home.

Jordan Taylor 00:23:11 No tours of the white House or anything.

Rosbert Humphrey 00:23:13 No no no no no. Next time. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Jordan Taylor 00:23:16 All right, all right. I appreciate you joining me here. More to our conversation tomorrow. this has been a special edition of the exchange here at Banknote Conference 2026 in Washington, D.C..

Jordan Taylor 00:23:29 I’m Jordan Taylor for Currency Research. Catch you next time.

Intro & Outro 00:51:46 Thank you for listening to The P.I.T. Exchange, a podcast by Currency Research. Check out our upcoming events and publications at Currency Research. And join us for our next episode to hear what’s trending in payments, innovation and technology.